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On the show today, I have Ryan Yackel, Chief Marketing Officer at Databand.ai
Ryan is a former sales engineer, turned product marketer, turned chief marketing officer. Also, a children’s book author with an animated version available on Youtube.
This was a phenomenal conversation. Ryan came prepared with props, in the trenches product marketing stories, frameworks for narrative design and book recommendations. Plus we had a lot of good laughs.
During our conversation, we discuss
Why product marketers make natural CMOs, and why founders trust leaders with a product marketing background
How narrative design helps teams avoid feature dumps and instead tell a differentiated “old way vs. new way” story (aka your secret sauce)
Real-world examples of narrative design applied at Tricentis, KeyFactor, Databand, and IBM
The role of “sales narratives” in equipping reps to tell memorable stories instead of commodity feature checklists
How Ryan uses Google Gemini and NotebookLM to accelerate competitive research with frameworks like Obviously Awesome
Why AI is a useful starting point for research but dangerous to rely on for final messaging
The major shift in product marketing from startups (new logo focus) to enterprises (internal seller mindshare)
Three tactics for influencing large sales teams: AMA sessions, “What’s New” newsletters, and quick-turn collateral
Why “great go-to-market beats a better product every time,” with lessons from competing against HP Quality Center
Cautionary takes on PLG in enterprise software, and why not all SaaS playbooks translate to technical products
And so much more.
In this episode, you’ll find
00:00 – The “secret sauce” in messaging: telling a story buyers remember
00:35 – Intro to Ryan Yackel, CMO at Databand
01:31 – Why product marketers make great CMOs
02:17 – From sales engineer to product marketing leader
03:43 – Why recruiters seek CMOs with product marketing backgrounds
06:02 – Product marketing as the headlights guiding demand gen
08:21 – Analogies that explain the role of product marketing
09:36 – Narrative design: framework for product launches
12:29 – Case study: Continuous Testing at Tricentis
13:26 – Case study: Machine identity management at KeyFactor
14:22 – Case study: Data observability at Databand
15:30 – Bringing narrative design into IBM product launches
17:44 – Where narratives live: sales decks, messaging docs, and pitches
21:36 – Using reference points like Datadog to simplify complex products
22:07 – Building narratives for multi-product organizations
24:40 – Using AI (Gemini + NotebookLM) for competitive research
28:05 – Prompt engineering for category deep dives (Collier Rosin Kranz example)
30:12 – Framework mashups: April Dunford + corporate visions + AI research
32:27 – The “Red Box vs. Green Box” exercise for sales differentiation
36:35 – Teaching sales teams to sell stories, not features
38:17 – How messaging shifts from startup to enterprise companies
43:28 – Three tactics to win sales mindshare in large enterprises
46:52 – AMA sessions, newsletters, and internal podcasts for sales enablement
50:11 – Contrarian opinions: AI for messaging, PLG caution, GTM beats product
55:46 – Why go-to-market strategy beats having a “better” product
58:23 – Ryan’s #1 piece of messaging advice: define your secret sauce
1:00:56 – What life is all about: gratitude, faith, and perspective
1:03:38 – Where to find Ryan and his children’s book Pancakes and Mr. Bear
Where to Find Ryan (and more links):
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanyackel/
Where to Find Josh:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-chronister/
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Created by Josh Chronister
I interview the best product marketers and tech companies who create messaging that resonates with their buyers. Come learn from them, so you can hit ‘Publish’ with confidence.
